There is sometimes disagreement among English speakers when labelling days in a sequence with this and next, and you may hear people say either this or next to refer to the coming day. If you study sequences of time more carefully, it can help you to understand why this is, and how you can clarify what an English speaker means by, for example “This Friday” or “Next Friday.”
Next usually refers to the following object in a sequence, for instance “The next bus leaves in 10 minutes.” This usually refers to an object that is immediately occurring, or can be seen. So when the bus is in sight, we could say “This bus looks crowded. Let’s get the next bus.”
For days, this causes confusion because the day is not an object that we can see coming in the same way as a bus. So for many people next Friday would refer to the coming Friday. However, this is actually a less common use – and normally next Friday means the Friday in the following week. Consider these two sentences:
1. It is Sunday the 4th of March. Next Friday will be the 9th. (The coming Friday)
2. It is Sunday the 4th of March. Next Friday will be the 16th. (In the next week)
You may find English speakers using both these meanings, often depending on regional uses. So which is more correct, and how should you commonly understand these expressions? Actually the second sentence is more common, and for many English speakers more logical – because the coming Friday is usually referred to as this Friday.
To understand why, it is easiest to consider that this should be used when the sequence is already taking place. Consider how we refer to parts of a day – we say this morning, this afternoon and this evening when the day has begun, even if it is not yet morning, afternoon or evening.The next afternoon would come in the next day (i.e. tomorrow). Similarly, this Friday is part of this week (the week we are in). So when we say next Friday it does not refer to the coming Friday, but the Friday of next week.
Using this logic, for days, this should refer to the day coming in the next 6 days (this week), while next should refer to the day in the next 7-13 days (the next week). Note, this should not be used on the day before, or on the day itself, when we would use tomorrow or today (but continue to use next for the following Friday).
To go back to our example:
It is Sunday the 4th of March. This Friday is the 9th. Next Friday is the 16th.
Today is Sunday the 4th of March, next Sunday is the 11th.
This is a common, and logical, way to describe days in the coming weeks. Still, many English speakers do interpret next differently, and us it to simply mean the coming day. If you have any doubt about whether someone means the coming Friday, or the Friday of the following week, you can ask them to clarify:
Do you mean the coming Friday, or Friday next week?
As there is debate over how to use these expressions, such a question would not be considered strange or unwelcome. In fact, being aware of this point and recognising that the terms may be used differently (which is not always clear to English speakers themselves) may help you to understand English speakers better than they understand each other.
Friday of the next week instead of next Friday seems more logical to me. Next Friday is the next Friday that is coming closest to today that hasn’t happened yet.
Yes that would be more logical, and certainly makes sense to use – but people aren’t always logical in the way they speak, so you may hear it used differently!
I have a friend who uses “next” when she really means “this” and it’s very confusing for both of us. It should be standardized to use “this” when referring to the coming day of the week, month, or season, and “next” when referring to the following day of a week, month, or season.
Hi Heather, yes that would be a nice system to set in place – but I suppose as your friend proves, language so often depends on who’s using it!
My husband and i are having a fun and friendly debate over this very topic, so i googled the correct term used and came across your article, thank you for what should be settling the debate but he doesn’t want to concede
I’m glad it helped, though yes it’s not a debate that’s easily settled!
Phil,
I think we all agree that we will always use last and next. What we need to get people to understand is that by dictionary definition, last is the one before THIS one, and next is the one after THIS one. There can be no last or next without a this.
Defining THIS is where it gets tough for people. If today is Thursday, what defines THIS Monday? But actually, it’s quite easy. When we make statements or ask questions about the goings on of a nearby day, we always use tense. So if I am speaking in the past tense, THIS Monday happens to be 3 days ago. If I’m speaking in future tense, THIS Monday is 4 days from now. Therefore, it’s easy to see that last Monday was 10 days ago, and next Monday is 11 days from now. The key is in knowing that there has to be a THIS, and using it.
The same goes for weeks. However; since people cannot agree to what constitutes a calendar week, we simply need to use rolling weeks. If we are speaking in past tense, THIS week is the 6 days that led up to, and plus, today. Using future tense, THIS week includes the rest of today, plus the 6 days that follow. So, today being Thursday (aka THIS Thursday in this situation), last week is represented by last Thursday (the Thursday before THIS Thursday, aka today) on back to last Friday. This is very easy and simple. Last week is always represented by 7-13 days ago, which in this case contains last Thursday on back to last Friday, and next week is always represented by 7-13 days in the future, which in this case contains next Thursday out to next Wednesday.
This also works for talking about the day or week before last, and the day or week after next. There are no holes in this procedure. There are holes in every other way that people are using next and last.
I do not agree. ‘This’ is not defined as between last and next. It defines the subject of reference, the ‘antecedent’ noun, which must have already been defined.
Using the word “this” in a sentence about a point in time is lazy language exactly because it does not define the “this” which you are referencing. It is an unclear antecedent. It is only acceptable if you are referencing the time you are actually in, as in “This week we will go to the store.” If I instead say, “My parents are coming to visit this weekend” you have not defined to what “this” refers, and thus it has an unclear antecedent.
Aaron,
I didn’t say that THIS is defined as between last and next. But both last and next are immediately before and after the current one, and that we can refer to the current as THIS. And there is no reason to be confused about which one is THIS, because there is always tense to provide context. When you say that your parents are coming to visit this weekend, there’s no need for anyone to be confused about which weekend you’re referring. No need at all.
I have to say that I agree with the comment that questions which is “this” when mentioning a day of the week.
If you say this week, this month or this year it’s the one you are currently in. Because the day mentioned is not the current one (i.e. it’s not today) it’s not clear to everyone what this or next means as there is no current day and consequently no context.
Yes, common usage in SOME places is that “this Thursday” is the next occurring Thursday but it’s not in others where the next occurring Thursday is “next Thursday”.
English has many different lazy usages (such as boil the kettle when it means boil the water in the kettle) and this is one of them. Different people have different understanding of the meaning and personally I use a date to include the week (this week Thursday or next week Thursday) just to make sure I’m understood.
Hi. The issue with the use of this you describe, is that technically, ‘this week’ then encompasses a time equivalent of 13 days…. Which is Much more than a week.
I wish everything was standardized. As a person who’s been hearing impaired her whole life, progressively, it’s even tougher. (I had speech therapy in primary school…if everyone else had had it, would make it easier on me.)
It’s confusing because she’s confused but if you know that why don’t you just get a date from her instead of going and wondering which one is which she just don’t really go and always use that
I think your discussion is more on the prescriptivist side. As you said a lot of people (and maybe growing in number) have this interpretation or time concept when using this Friday or next Friday. As most lexicographers claim, we simply record how the people use their language (descriptivism).. This argument or linguistic issue can be likened to saying which one is correct? None is or none are, because until now most experts on the language could not get themselves off the “lockhorns” over this tissue. Thankk you.
Or we could just not concern ourselves with which is correct or incorrect, and simply analyze which is better. Which is what we’ve done here. When considerable thought is given, this past and this coming (simply this for short because tense is obvious in context of a sentence) are excellent descriptors. Once that is known and accepted, it’s very easy to agree that what follows this coming is the one that is next after this coming, or simply next.
How absurd is it to suggest that this coming should be called next? It’s Monday night and someone asks me if I’m available next Wednesday morning (let’s say 29 hours from now). There’s only a very small chance that anyone thinks of 29 hours in the future as next Wednesday. What about if it were Tuesday night when asking the same question? Now next Wednesday is only 5 hours away. That’s completely absurd, so the whole argument that we should automatically call the next Wednesday to come along next Wednesday should be thrown out.
It’s not at all absurd to suggest that next Thursday takes place in the following week unless you’ve passed Thursday already this week.
The definition of next is “a time coming immediately after the time if writing or speaking”. Seems pretty solid to me that this says it all that next Thursday is the next one occurring. If it’s April you don’t say next month is June nor do you say this month is April.
Having said that English changes and generates new rules and meanings for the same words and phrases.
What I think has happened is that it used to be “next week Thursday” or “this week Thursday” and some areas have dropped the “week” part of it.
This all caused me problems as I’d never heard of this and next used in this way!
No. People are consistently and wisely often referring to this coming Thursday. So to say that this coming Thursday and next Thursday can be the same day would be unnecessarily confusing, thus absurd. Simply refer to this coming as this coming, and to the one after that as next, as in the one after this coming. Your way of simply calling two days from Monday as next Wednesday sounds stupid, and causes confusion. If today is Monday, and 2 days from now is next Wednesday, when is this Wednesday? You’re trying to eliminate this coming from our language. My way doesn’t cause confusion.
It’s Saturday night and I say to you, “This Monday, I would like to go shopping with you.” By your rules, you should tell me that will be impossible because this Monday has already passed. Is that your contention? If not, you might answer that you are going to be busy this Monday, but are available next Monday. Very easy, and no confusion. It doesn’t matter in which week a day falls. It matters if it is this coming, or the one that is next after that.
Apologies if this has appeared in the wrong place but the reply button is a bit confusing!
I hear and understand all the points made here – don’t agree with some of them!.
The issue is that not everyone has the same understanding and the strict meaning of this and next isn’t used always used here.
Dictionary definition of “this” – “used to identify a specific person or thing close at hand or being indicated or experienced.”
Dictionary definition of “next” – “(of a time) coming immediately after the time of writing or speaking.” and
“coming immediately after the present one in order, rank, or space.”
James Barnhard said “It’s Saturday night and I say to you, “This Monday, I would like to go shopping with you.” By your rules, you should tell me that will be impossible because this Monday has already passed. Is that your contention? ”
No it’s not what I meant. My “rules” don’t say that. What my “rule” says is that “next Monday” is the next occurring Monday as is “this Monday” and pays no attention to which week you’re in. This is evidenced in the definitions above.
What my original post says is “It’s not at all absurd to suggest that next Thursday takes place in the following week unless you’ve passed Thursday already this week.”
To you things may sound stupid but to me “next Monday” is not logical (or absurd in your parlance) and something I’d never heard of until I moved countries.
You’re very uncompromising straight talking almost to the point of aggression but I don’t take offence on this!
If you read the final part of my post you’ll see that I believe that the word “week” has been dropped from the phrase(something that’s not uncommon in English) so “this week Monday” or “next week Monday” is possibly where it started but in some areas has morphed into the confusing “this” and “next” we have now.
Whatever the beliefs of usage it’s clear that being precise on the date is the best way I found of not getting confused.
I’d be curious to know if there is a history of using the word WEEK, such as you’re suggesting. It sounds very cumbersome. It would also require all parties to agree on which day begins a week. Many calendars begin with a Sunday, but that ruins the term weekend for those who work Monday thru Friday.
Looking around and doing a bit of investigation there seems to be a common usage of “Wednesday week” in Britain or “a week from Wednesday” which are variations of “next week Wednesday” and I think they do sound more friendly.
Whether the week is included or not it is assumed in referring to “next Wednesday” as the Wednesday of next week so I’m guessing that’s the origin but will keep looking.
There is confusion anyway about which day is the start or end of a week. In many countries the start of the week is Monday (mostly Europe), others start on Sunday (mainly the Americas) and in the Middle East it starts either on Friday or Saturday!
Having said that most implied “next” phrases are in context of the local situation. However I’m not sure that helps in international communication
My point is that with understanding of what next actually means, it is not ambiguous. As you pointed out, the definition is that the next one is the one that follows THIS one. As long as we use THIS for this coming and this past, the days referred to as LAST and NEXT are perfectly clear. Your dictionary apparently used the word PRESENT, but on Thursday, Sunday coming doesn’t really work as PRESENT. If you say, I would like to go shopping on present Sunday, people would probably figure out that you mean this coming Sunday, but it makes much more sense to say this coming Sunday (this Sunday, for short), as on Thursday, it’s not presently any day but Thursday, which we would simply refer to as TODAY. Like I said, we always use tense in these situations, and if we also use THIS, we are always clear about the exact day. Then when we add in LAST & NEXT (to THIS), we can also be perfectly clear that last is just previous to this past, and next is just after this coming. No need to refer to the ambiguous WEEK.
People are not going to go through all of the trouble to grab a calendar and look up the date for THIS & NEXT. Especially when it can be clear by using tense, this, last and next.
You’re not going to get many people to stop using next. If I ask you to go to the store this Sunday, because I’m using future tense, and the term THIS, I’m able to be clear as to the exact day. If you reply that you’re busy this Sunday, but that you will go the NEXT Sunday, you are also being clear as to the exact day. There are countless more people who are happy to simply use tense and THIS than there are people who are willing to needlessly find a calendar to figure the date. If on May 29th a person asked me to go shopping on June 4th, I’d probably ask them which day that was. When they replied that it was a Saturday, I’d probably ask which Saturday. Then when they pointed out that it was the upcoming Saturday, I’d complain that they could have saved us a lot of time by simply asking me to go shopping this Saturday. But if you want to needlessly put yourself and others through that, knock yourself out.
I’m sorry that THIS & NEXT are confusing to you in terms of days. If you were able to understand what I’ve explained, you’d be able to see that there are no holes or ambiguities if one communicates these things in the way I’ve advocated.
I see that you are also confused by the service queue. If you are the one being served, you are the one presently (your dictionary) being served. If someone tried to cut the line in front of the person behind you, they would yell out, “Hey, I’m NEXT! Go to the back of the line.” So you know, the person PRESENTLY being served is directly in front of the person who is NEXT to be served. Also, the person at the front of a line cannot be referred to as next-in-line. To be next, you have to be after a current. Your flaw is that you think NEXT can refer to the one after a past one. You think a Sunday can be NEXT because it is the first one that occurs after the past one. You think a person who is waiting to be served is considered next, even after the person who was previous is now gone. These things are just untrue. Once the previous person is done and gone, you lose your status as next. You are now the person who is PRESENTLY being served. The person behind you is now next.
I don’t think your cumbersome solution of resorting to a calendar as often as that would be necessary with your system, is pragmatic. Being that the system I’ve described is flawless, and simple when followed, mine is the pragmatic solution. Hopefully you’ll come to understand these things over time and not find them confusing anymore.
Let’s do it Arabic style.. in Arabic it’s always Friday ( if it falls in the current week ) and it’s always Friday next week ( if it falls in the following week) it’s standard practice and never fails you. If it’s a Friday more than in the following week a date is used.
Example, today is Monday so it will be
Friday ( for this week)
Friday next week ( for the following week)
Friday 12th November. ( for several weeks into the future)
PROBLEM SOLVED!
Again, saying Sunday next week doesn’t work because many people believe next week begins with a Sunday. Whereas, if you believe in weekends, next week begins with a Monday. On a Thursday, you could say Sunday next week. One person would think you are referring to 3 days in the future, and another would think 10 days in the future. So your way still causes confusion.
Here are the things that actually solve the problem. The definition of last is the one that occurs just prior to this one, and the definition of next is the one that occurs just after this one. Since we always speak with tense, if we refer to the future, this Sunday will always be the upcoming Sunday. So on Thursday, if you say you want to go shopping this Sunday, we all know that you mean 3 days from now. Therefore, if instead you say that you want to go shopping next Sunday, we can all know that you mean the Sunday after this upcoming Sunday, 10 days from now. Otherwise, you would have said This Sunday. Likewise, if you say that you WENT shopping THIS Sunday, we can all know that you went 4 days ago. And if you say that you went shopping LAST Sunday, you mean that you went shopping 11 days ago. Using the word THIS for the day that falls in the rolling week that applies to your tense solves the problem. This coming Sunday is 100% clear to everyone. This past Sunday is 100% clear to everyone. So if you properly use next as the Sunday that follows this Sunday, and last as the Sunday that preceeded this Sunday, there is no confusion. People simply need to use this, next and last, correctly. The confusion is really that many people don’t understand that next is not the one that is immediately upcoming. Next means the one that occurs just after THIS one.
Again, saying next or last week causes confusion because we cannot all agree on when a calendar week runs. With rolling weeks, the use of tense, this, last and next make all references perfectly clear.
As we discussed previously the definition of next is ambiguous in this context.
As far as I’m concerned this and next are the same in relation to days (dictionary definition “coming immediately after the present one in order, rank, or space.”). Clearly colloquial usage has, in some areas, made a distinction when talking about days of the week.
Just use a date rather and assume that people have different understanding.
I think that unwittingly you’ve identified the problem. The dictionary definitions are very clear that next refers to an instance following the current or present instance.
If next refers to the instance following the present one then which is the present day? If it’s neither the one that has already passed or the one coming in the future. So as a result different people interpret this in different ways.
You may remember that I said “this” and “next” as could refer to the week rather than the day and then your logic is right. This (week) Thursday and next (week) Thursday make it very clear but as has been stated many times English is very imprecise and often relies on local knowledge.
Until then I use an absolute date so there is no confusion.
My final words on this.
No matter what else is said, there is confusion about “this” and “next” in terms of days. There isn’t any confusion if you’re in a queue to buy something and there’s no one in front of you. You are the next person (you’re not “this” person and the one behind you isn’t the “next” person in the queue!) to be served so why has this happened with days of the week? Maybe it doesn’t matter as long as we can communicate successfully and not be a week early or a week late!
When views become uncompromising and fixed then discussion becomes impossible and views become more entrenched. My intention with all this is to understand where this has come from and to present a pragmatic solution for all to understand what others mean when they use words in this way – not just what they are saying. Unless something new comes to light I think I’ve reached the end of any useful discussion on this.
No because that Friday is part of that week so you say next Friday meeting the next week. Simply put just get a date
Specify the time and or date/day.
Last week: the week preceding the current week
This week: the current week
Next week the following week
If you can best to say Day of the week
Client said they want to arrange e an appointment Monday or Tuesday next week
On Sunday he asked “‘Will you free on Monday or Tuesday next week?”
Whilst I understood what he meant it can be confusing.
He would have been better saying
“Are you free next Monday or Tuesday?”
Or
“Are you available this Monday or Tuesday?” Sometimes it is better to not use next week. Unless you are referring to the following week. It becomes even more confusing when the reader reads the question the following day.
I wish you had used target days other than Friday in your examples 😉
Friday feels like it has a bit of a special position at the tail end of the week (regardless of whether you’re in a culture that starts the week with Monday or starts it with Sunday), so it’s not obvious if the patterns that you establish here actually are applicable to days at the other end of the week–to Monday or Sunday–especially when referencing them from so far as 6 days away.
What does “next Sunday” mean when said on Monday, for example? Does it mean the same thing as if said on Friday? Are the uncertainty-bars a sliding window?
And is the phrase “this coming Sunday” less appropriate to use in reference to the immediately-next-week’s Sunday when said more early in the week? (it certainly feels more awkward to say “this coming Sunday” on a Monday morning, and less awkward to say it on a Friday).
Thanks Rozzin, you do make a very good point – though I think that trickiness was part of the reason I chose that day (if I recall correctly, it was a long time since I wrote this!). But your second point is very important – it can often depend on the speaker, and you will certainly find people disagreeing about this, but there will certainly be a difference depending on exactly when in the week something is said. Saying “next Thursday” on a Monday could provide the same sort of uncertainty as saying “next Sunday on a Friday”, though saying “next Wednesday” on a Monday, less so. This is, however, all rather subjective – whatever “definitive” answers might be presented, you’ll find disagreements.
“This coming Sunday”, though, I’d say brings less confusion – whether said on the Monday or Friday, really that has to mean the upcoming Sunday, only it might be less necessary closer to the day as you might simply say “on Sunday / this Sunday” when less call for having to clearly define it.
Last wednesday 30 I received this mail: “Give me time till next weekend i will get back to you.” For me it was the weekend of the same week. Is it correct ?
Hmm, quite a tricky one – I would take that to mean the following weekend, as Wednesday is so close to the weekend I’d expect the weekend of the same week to be referred to as ‘the/this weekend’ (or in shorter terms such as ‘give me a few days’). I would double-check with the sender in that case.
My wife and I have confusion on what we mean with this and next; and we both use the same, correct use (as you state it). Perhaps we should always the date, as I used to when booking cars in at work but, having said that, I’ve had customers still get it wrong as they don’t have a calendar in front of them!
Ha, yes, using a date is certainly the safest route to understanding! Another option can be to use ‘the coming [day]’ and ‘the following [day]’, but then I expect there’s similar confusion there for some.
It reaches the point of needing to clarify by numbers of the days of the month.
(Did I ‘say’ that correctly?)
Yes absolutely – and you’re right, we could certainly do more to teach everyone to communicate better, though unfortunately the nature of living language makes it impossible to standardise.
I was going to say, now that everyone I know has phone calendars, it’s easy to just pop it up and say, “Sunday the 7th [day of month]”… The worst thing about knowing when this week ends is some people in the US think Sun is the 1st day of the week and others think it’s the 7th day (changing whether Sunday has already passed this week).
As an engineer working with a lot of people who speak multiple languages, this (next?, the coming?) topic makes me pull my hair out. What is at fault? English!!!!! I loved the write up and it’s okay to be confused. I’ll follow up with you next Tuesday with another comment. 🙂
Your “this” = next 6 days is the reason why this topic is confusing and why I believe it is not logical.
Next 6 days can mean very different things depending on which day you are currently at. If you are on a Sunday, which is usually considered the beginning of a week, then using the terms “this” and “next” are very simple, it simply means the current week or next week (1 week away).
But if you are on a Wednesday, it becomes murky. Using your “next 6 days rule”, “next Tuesday” now is 2 weeks away instead of the immediate one that is coming up (1 week away). The simplest way is to just dedicate the term “this” for any days belonging to the current week, and “next” for any days belonging to the following week, regardless how far and close you are from that day. This way there will be zero confusion.
Certainly I think your suggestion is perfectly logical and makes sense – but the problem is that in practice people do not necessarily think in terms of week endings and beginnings, and are not stopping to think whether or not the coming Tuesday, for example, takes place before or after a Sunday – only whether or not there is another Tuesday before it.
Only zero confusion if the person you are speaking with understands/uses the same method. (Respectfully)
Is this a North / South divide question? “Next” for my southern colleagues appears to predominantly means the one coming up. “Next” up North would mean the one after the weekend. So just to confuse things, up North on a Wednesday, you could talk about “this” Monday and be speaking about something that happened 2 days ago.
It certainly could vary regionally though I’m not sure it would be as simple as North/South – I can definitely recall having disagreements with people I grew up with over this/next! Though for that latter point I can certainly imagine that coming up, depending on the context ‘this’ could easily infer the most recently passed rather than the coming day.
Thank you for this quick primer. It is hard enough for natural English speakers to understand all the ‘rules’ of our crazy language. I appreciate the time you are investing in helping others! (And settling an office dispute we’ve just had. Ha!)
You’re welcome, though in this case I think it’s hard to settle arguments as it often falls on quite subjective ground!
Let’s say that today is Thursday the 18th.
What is THIS Thursday? Is it today, the 18th? Or is it NEXT Thursday, the 25th? Or would I have to say, “This COMING Thursday” to mean the 25th?
This is one case where the definitions tend to be clearer, as we wouldn’t typically use ‘this’ to refer to today, so it would mean the following Thursday – though ‘next Thursday’ would be much more likely, and most commonly used. In this context, ‘next’ would definitely mean the following week, not two weeks away (whereas ‘this’ would imply ‘this coming Thursday’, ie the next Thursday – it’s a bit of a mind game!).
Tanks for this very interesting article, Phil. Now, please check the dates on the first example “It is Sunday the 4th of March. Next Friday will be the 7th. (The coming Friday)”, which are correct the second time round.
Best wishes from Argentina.
Hi Javier, thanks for pointing that out, not sure how it slipped by! I’ve amended it now.
Hello everyone. This is definitely a problem in most of languages. If we´re not sure, it´s always better to check and mention the date, which is more precise. Hava a nice this and next weeks.
I proposed a friend on a Saturday 18th to meet up next Friday or Saturday, she never showed up, so i think she git it like Friday 30th!!
I’ve have often pondered about the often ambiguous nature of language generally, and find that the incorrect use of grammar often leads to confusion in meaning. Many years ago, my grade 7 teacher once corrected me for bad grammar. I was telling a story, and started with “There was this man”. My teacher immediately pulled me up and said “what man?”. I said “this man”. He said “well where is he, I can not see him, and you are not pointing or referring to any man in particular, so the correct phrase is “There was “a man”, not “this man”. This is correct grammar. When referring to “this” anything, there must be in logic, a pointer to something more specific which must follow in order to give the word “this” context. So to say “this Friday”, you must identify which Friday “this Friday” is. If one were to ask me “which Friday are you referring to?”, I could point at a calendar of a Friday in 6 weeks time, and say “This Friday”. The communication here is clear and understood and has clear context. To say “this Friday”, without qualification is a nonsense, as it has no context outside of one which is interpreted by the listener, which could be anything. If I were standing in a queue, and the checkout operator said “next please”, the person at the front of the queue is being indicated, not the second person in the queue. The length of the queue has no bearing on this.
To take the same logic to our “next Friday” question. Next Friday will always mean the next Friday in the queue, whether it be tomorrow or six days from now. To refer to the Friday after next Friday, then it must be Friday After Next, and so on. No ambiguity there. To say “this Friday” without actually specifying which Friday you are referring to is a corruption of the meaning of meaning, and there fore has no meaning.
Hi Craige,
That is a good and different point, and it would be useful to rely on the strictly grammatical use of the word, but unfortunately this is more of a linguistic question, as in practice English speakers do not stick to strict rules. The rules are there rather to help understand how language works, not to dictate how it should work.
I disagree that ‘this Friday’ is nonsense without a context, as the ‘pointer’ or indicator to tell us is based on our understanding of what day today is. The same way we would understand ‘this week’ to be the one the current day belongs to, we can understand that ‘this Friday’ refers to the one that belongs to the current week – within reason (as the article and comments show, this is not necessarily that simple, but it is a starting point).
To be honest, I think your English teacher did you a disservice in response to that story you told in Grade 7; it’s the sort of seed that strict grammarians sow that can really limit communication. It’s easy to dismiss a quirk in language as incorrect, and therefore to be avoided, but while starting a story “There was this man.” may be grammatically questionable I would not say it is incorrect. It is an informal use of ‘this’ which is often employed (certainly from my area of the English-speaking world) to introduce an unspecified noun in a familiar way. ‘This’ is very often used this way in spoken English, and indeed if you were writing an informal story from a particular perspective it would be perfectly acceptable. To say there is only one way ‘this’ should be used will inevitably not only limit your own range of expression, but your understanding of others. I don’t see this as a corruption, merely the way language evolves to suit the needs of communication, which is, after all, exactly what language is for.
Greetings Phil. English, what she is spoke, it a veritable pain ! Punctuation, context and semantics however, are vital to our capacity to comprehend even the least in language. Case, and point: Punctuate the following. Woman without her man is a pitiful failure. Ergo: Woman, without her, man is a pitiful failure. Woman without her man, is a pitiful failure.
Sadly, when each of us utters a word, a small flag pops up in our mind saying, this is what this particular word means. Period. Sadly, it is not the same flag which pops up in all instances and thusly, we needs must attend to grammatically accurate means of imparting the meaning of meaning.
Often one of the biggest barriers to communication is language itself. Far too many individuals consider the ability to read minds as mandatory and become incensed when asked to elucidate. Add to this those for whom age renders usage as arcane and: need I say more ?
Yes, you are right, it is a frustration that can very much depend on context and an individual’s own understanding. A big problem that goes in hand with that is that once a rule is learned people can be stubborn about their belief in it, while it might not always apply the same way. The best option really, and especially with cases like this, is to be patient with each other and willing to clarify meaning!
Phil,
I’ve given this considerable thought and have a logical system for days, without a single hole.
All descriptive sentences contain tense. If we use past tense, than “this” means this past. Conversely, if we’re speaking in future tense, it becomes this coming. Last Tuesday is referencing past tense, so it would be the Tuesday before this past Tuesday. If it’s Thursday, I can say two days ago was this past Tuesday, or just this Tuesday (combined with past tense), and that last Tuesday was 9 days ago.
Weeks are ambiguous, though. Personally, I feel that a calendar week runs from Monday to Sunday. At least in American culture, we all refer to the 2 day weekEND. I think our traditional calendar here shows Sunday as the first day of the week because of a biblical reference. But even if we all agree that the next week starts after a weekend, there’s still the problem of calendar week vs. current 7 day period beginning with today. When one says next week, they could either be referring to this coming Monday through Sunday period, because they would refer to the current Monday through Sunday period as this week. Or, they could be referring to 7-13 days from now. It all depends on what a person is currently meaning by the word week. Week can’t be standardized, but should be understood by context.
Anyway, I wonder if the mistake people make when not understanding this and next when referring to days is at least partially due to the fact that the rule is different for weeks. Again, this Friday is two days from now calls the next in order “this”. Whereas, the next in order week cannot be referred to as “this”.
Thanks for your time,
Jamie
Hi Jamie,
Yes, I think you make good points. Certainly, the ambiguity over weeks does complicate it, but in a more perfect world it would be understood!
Phil
Thank you for your clear explanation. My son recently gave me quite the angry lecture in the correct use of this and next when I tried to clarify which day he was speaking of. (He’s 19.)
Hi Marilyn, you are welcome! Absolutely, you are correct that it is only clear when both people understand the system that the speaker intends.
I wish you had included an explanation of the British use of “next” after the day in question, eg “Wednesday next” to specifically refer to the day in the next week. I wish this would also be used in the USA.
Hi Chris,
Yes that’s an interesting phrase to bring up – you’re right, “Wednesday next” does rather unambiguously suggest the Wednesday of the following week. I was not aware it’s not used in America!
Phil
I’ve given up trying to make that particular point, and others, to people to be specific as to which day. Easier to whip out calendar on trusty cell phone and give them the number of the specific day. And ask for the same when receiving. Even to say ‘the Wednesday after this coming one’…not clear enough to say or to hear. The day by number is what we’ve come to.
I think we shouldn’t use “next Friday” at all.
Use “This Friday” or “Friday week”.
Much less confusion.
My English teacher put it his way, this Friday is in this week, next Friday is in next week. and it make prefect sense.
Yes, that is the simplest way to summarise it, but in practice people disagree over where the new week starts, or what exactly “this week” or “next week” means (logically we’d suggest it resets on Mondays, but to say “I’ll see you this Tuesday” on a Sunday would clearly mean the coming Tuesday, not the Tuesday that belonged to the same week as the Sunday).
I’m having a discussion with my wife about this very thing right now over text. At the time of typing, it is Wednesday, I made a dentist appointment for Tuesday the 8th, and I am referring to that appointment as being “next Tuesday.” Why? Because I didn’t go to the dentist this Tuesday, which happened yesterday, this week. She says that the appointment is “next Tuesday” the 15th, but to me that skips a Tuesday, one that can’t be this Tuesday, because we’re still in this week.
I feel that for most people a proximity to the day is relevant to how “this” it is, in that when we reach Friday everyone will be referring to “this Monday” as the one after the weekend, but now we’re still referring to the Monday of this week as “this Monday.” Which is why dates are so important and I should’ve been paying attention to the number more than the day or the word “this.”
Yes, I think that’s a reasonable attitude to take – much as it would make sense to try and regiment it, I feel for the most part that sense of proximity, which is not a thing set in stone, is what leads to most people’s decision over what “this” or “next” refers to. And I think your conclusion is spot on either way, though: when in doubt, we should look to the numbers, as we may never agree on the exact definitions of subjective words!
Some people I spoke to in Brazil & Portugal (and some parts in Australia) use ‘next Saturday’ as what I’ve learnt in school as ‘on Saturday’ or ‘coming Saturday’ (meaning the nearest Saturday). It seems like a direct translation of their language to English. Perhaps someone who is Brazilian/Portuguese can clarify on that. Just a note, my school teaches UK English, and my mum went to an American school. We were taught the same.
For people who are used to numerical sequences, the next number in a sequence is the upcoming number in the sequence. Some people use the same logic in speaking. For them, next Friday is the next Friday in the sequence of days after today has passed. That’s based on logic too. This is more about following standards than logic.
OK, but if a weekly event only is available on Fridays, it’s Thursday, and I invite them to attend next Friday, how many mathematicians are going to wonder if I mean tomorrow or 8 days from now? And if I invite them to attend THIS Friday, how many of them are going to find that ambiguous? If we use THIS when making invitations, it’s perfectly clear which Friday or Monday we’re referring to. So it makes perfect sense to use this practice. Then NEXT becomes clear to be the one after THIS. If we fail to use THIS, NEXT will always be ambiguous, since by definition, NEXT is always the one after this one.
Thank you everyone for this thread, it’s been a great rabbit hole to crawl down early THIS morning. Hopefully I’m not too late to the party.
My understanding, and my logic leans towards James’. I agree that a week is Monday to Sunday. The weekend is Saturday and Sunday. How can Sunday be part of the weekend and also the beginning of the week? The beginning and the end, the alpha and the omega? The Lords day. I’ve never considered a rolling week, that seems like a messy way to think about it. The way I think about communicating LAST, THIS, and NEXT days of a week are as follows:
LAST refers to any day of the previous Monday to Sunday week.
THIS refers to any day of the current Monday to Sunday week, therefore I would use THIS for a
day in the current week that has already passed. (e.g. THIS Monday was very windy)
NEXT refers to any day of the following Monday to Sunday week.
This way you are able to reference any day in the previous, current, and following three week time frame. You are referencing days within a week. Having consensus on what constitutes a week is important.
An analogy would be referencing time of day:
In the afternoon I would reference the morning as THIS morning was, not LAST morning was. As well, THIS evening will be, not NEXT evening will be.
Cheers!
That doesn’t quite work. You need the rolling week for 2 reasons. One, you won’t get that consensus on the first day of the week. And two, even if people agree that Monday begins a new week, there’s no way that on a Saturday night, people will refer to 26 hours later as next Monday. Next has to be the one after this one. And in your scenario, this Monday will have been 5 days past. Nobody is thinking that the next one after this one is 7 days after 5 days ago.
We definitely need tense to locate THIS. Then NEXT and LAST simply become the ones after and before the located THIS.